我是此书中文译本的译者之一。此书并非像amazon.com上说的那般神。首先,作者的表达能力就非常够呛。其次,本书的大批技术审校者母语都非英语。
一本描写技术细节的书,如果作者的写作能力不过关,其结果会如何呢?
以下是我们翻译的一干技术审校者对本书的“赞誉”,我可以这么说,在译文的文字表达方面,我们已经替这一干"title"众多的审校者遮了很多丑了。语文不行是这些国外技术作者的致命伤!
编写LINUX软件时,本书是我案头唯一的必备参考书。
——google软件工程师 MARTIN LANDERS
本书描述精到、示例周详,涵盖了LINUX底层API编程的详尽内容及个中细微之处——无论读者水平如何,都能从本书中受益。
——《Understanding the Linux Virtual Memory Manager》作者 MEL GORMAN
Michael Kerrisk的这本LINUX编程巨著,不但论及LINUX编程、其与各种标准之间的联系,而且还就作者所知,重点介绍了已获修正的LINUX内核BUG以及改进颇多的LINUX手册页。凭借以上三个方面,足可让LINUX编程更易上手。本书对各项主题的深入探讨足以使其成为必备的参考书籍———无论读者在LINUX编程方面造诣如何。
——NOVELL公司,OPENSUSE项目经理,ANDREAS JAEGER
Michael用他坚韧不拔的毅力为Linux程序员奉献了这本论述严谨,表述清晰、简洁的权威参考书。虽然本书是针对Linux程序员而著,但对任何在UNIX/POSIX环境中编程的程序员来说都极具价值。
——《Programming with POSIX Threads》作者和POSIX /UNIX标准撰写者,DAVID BUTENHOF
本书在重点关注Linux系统的同时,对于UNIX系统和网络编程也阐述透彻,浅显易懂。无论是初涉UNIX编程的新丁,还是UNIX编程经验丰富的老手(想要了解大行其道的GNU/Linux系统有何新意),我都向他们力荐此书。
——网络安全研究员,IETF参与者,IETF RFC作者 FERNANDO GONT
本书以百科全书般的叙述风格对LINUX接口编程作了既深且广的覆盖,还提供了大量教科书风格的编程示例和练习。本书所包含的各项主题——从原理到可以实际运行的代码,都描述清晰且易于理解。本书正是专业人士、学生以及教育工作者所期盼的Linux/UNIX参考书。
——OTAGO大学计算机科学副教授,ANTHONY ROBINS
无论从精确性、质量还是详细程度来说,本书都令我印象深刻。身为Linux系统调用的行家,Michael Kerrisk与我们分享了他对LINUX API的认知和理解。
——《Programmation système en C sous Linux》作者,CHRISTOPHE BLAESS。
对于治学严谨的专业LINUX/UNIX系统程序员而言,本书实为必备参考书籍。本书涵盖了所有关键API的使用——同时兼顾LINUX和UNIX系统接口,描述清晰,示例具体;除此之外,还强调了遵从诸如SUS和POSIX 1003.1等标准的重要性和益处。
——THE OPEN GROUP 标准部总监,POSIX 1003.1工作组主席ANDREW JOSEY
由手册页的维护者亲自操刀、站在系统程序员的立场写出一本百科全书式的LINUX系统编程巨著——还有比这更完美的吗?《LINUX编程接口》全面而又详实。我坚信本书将在我的书架上牢牢占据一席之地。
——《POSIX.4 Programmer’s Guide: Programming for the Real World》作者 BILL GALLMEISTER
本书是最新最全的LINUX/UNIX系统编程参考书。无论读者是LINUX系统编程新兵,还是关注LINUX编程和程序移植性的UNIX系统编程老将,又或者只是在寻找一本LINUX编程接口方面的优秀参考书,Michael Kerrisk的这本大作都笃定是其案头良伴。
——CORPULS.COM首席软件架构师(嵌入式)LOÏC DOMAIGNÉ。
@Eru 题主抱怨的似乎是说这本书不够循序渐进、循循善诱,问题是这本书本来就不是面向新手的introduction性质的书籍,人家是handbook啊~~
首先我没看过这本书,以下评论纯属推断。
别的不说,就我看题主给作者发的邮件,明显能看出题主的英语水平就很有限。首先一些基本的英语写作格式比如标点后面的空格都是有的有有的没,更别说句式了,各种不流畅和一些奇怪的用法。可见题主平时很少写英文。这样的情况下说原作者的表达能力不好让我感觉说服力不足。
至于作者的回复,I wish you had been able to read chapters of the book before publication. I am sure you would have helped make it better! 这多半是出于对读者的礼貌而已,提供的意见不管好赖都会这么说,基本的感谢,所以也不能说明作者确实承认自己表达能力有问题吧?
我扫了一眼楼主的正文,仔细看了一下他发给作者的邮件。邮件中的建议部分倒是有些思路,但此书定位绝非新手,为什么要去讲synchronized i/o data integrity completion?
楼主的英文Email水平我就不吐槽了。既然不爽,我建议还是退出为妙,不要毁书。译者的愉悦感太重要了。找不到靠谱的合作译者,可以跟出版社反馈,改交稿日期也行,但万万不要勉强。此外,原作难免有瑕疵,感觉他介绍不足,你可以以译者注形式补充一下,方便读者参考。
我也译过几本书,非英语母语作者确实出现过表达一堆从句,极其绕口不好理解的情况。但一般来说,每本书都或多或少有瑕疵,也有一些先进概念所在。我建议楼主多花心思想怎么把翻译做好,补充上必要的知识,跟作者沟通理解清楚一些存在歧义部分他真正要表达的意思。
如果译者确实在该技术领域有积累、有思考、也有想法,写一本超越作者的书也未尝不可。不过你要记住,你是站在别人的肩膀上。
"他说这些所谓的经典其实都根本不需要去看,因为很多国内的书其实更好理解" ---- 恕我冒犯你这位同学,大凡说这句话的多是没看过什么经典的。如果你看过,你不可能分不出好坏。就好像只要你真正驾驶过,你不可能分不出奥迪和奇瑞的区别。
PS. 拿经典和国内的书相比,也太抬举国内的那些个当砖头都嫌分量不够的“编著”了。
哈,有点意思-------这么看来这本书对于新手,的确不是太合适(楼主刚才指出的问题,我也看了一下,看来确实是存在的)---不过我还是想指出我为什么要看这本书的原因(APUE我已经看过了,另外其实我是学kernel-level编程的),其实原因和原作者所提到的一样,我需要一本书明确的指出:Linux和别的“Unix”的不同之处,具体在linux里是怎么处理这些不同的------另外,有一点很有意思,你对这本书的批评和我的一个同学最近对APUE的批评很想近,他说这些所谓的经典其实都根本不需要去看,因为很多国内的书其实更好理解,然后我就对他的论调提出一点:在APUE之前,没有一本书Unix下的系统级编程及其技巧讲得这么全面的了---其实在这里也是一样,APUE确实优秀,但它不是完全针对linux的,在这个linux一统天下的时代,我们(至少我个人)确实需要一本明确针对linux系统级编程的“百科全书”----期待你们的工作,你们的工作是很有意义的---
我认为非专业的译者不应对原作的内容和语言进行攻击,你们所需要做的就是和本国的编辑尽可能好的用本国语言表达原文的意思并保证是该行业人员所通用和可以理解的语汇和语句。
本人看不出你对计算机操作系统究竟有多高深的见解,你的批评对于计算机行业从业人员简直是不可理喻。如果你表达的是你们领导的观点,那我想这就不是一个可以自由讨论的问题了。
看了楼主给原作者的邮件,觉得楼主说话还是很直白的,算不上委婉:)
作者也是在刚开始的时候狡辩一下,后来就在楼主的yin威下放弃了:)
犀利啊!赞。
本书的第二章作者写的很差,我们以邮件的形式委婉表达了这一观点,附上邮件原文:
Michael:
I'v just finished the translation of chapter 2 of LPI.
I understand your motivation: to provide some background knowledge to
those Linux or Unix newbies.
But i don't think u have achieved that goal:
the fundamental concepts are very hard to understand.and I think it's
absolutely difficult to describe those concepts simply in words.
My suggestion is that you should include more examples and
demos,pictures,which chapter 2 is very lack of.
and your explaination or discussion often introduce new knowledges.
for example: function call linkage information,i don't know what it
means. BTW,The same problem exists in page 76,chapter 4, where you
describe O_DSYNC like this:
"Perform file writes according to the requirements of synchronized I/O
data integrity completion. See the discussion of kernel I/O buffering in
Section 13.3."
I can't understand what "synchronized I/O data integrity completion"
means, even after having read the 3.374 base definition of SUSv3. Only
when I read the corresponding section (Section 3.3) in "Advanced Unix
Programming Enviroment v2" by Stevens & Rago, I have got the idea.I
think u can learn the way they describe a concept. It's very easy to
understand.
And back to chapter 2,the introduction of pseduterminals is very hard
to understand. Without a specified scienario, and simply using
abstract technology terms,I can't imagine where we can make use of
this techonology . Still, within one paragraph(2nd paragraph,section
2.15), you use a lot of "driver"s among which their meaning may be
differnt(e.g."Output written by the driver program undergoes the usual
input processing performed by the terminal driver"),and this can
easily cause misleading,especially to newbies.
yours sincerely
sunjian
以下是作者的回复:
Hello Sun Jian,
2011/5/21 sun jian <5515159@gmail.com>:
> Michael:
> I'v just finished the translation of chapter 2 of LPI.
> I understand your motivation: to provide some background knowledge to
> those Linux or Unix newbies.
> But i don't think u have achieved that goal:
> the fundamental concepts are very hard to understand.and I think it's
> absolutely difficult to describe those concepts simply in words.
I'm not really going to disagree with anything you say here. I'll just
note a few points:
* My primary audience here was not newbies as such, but rather people
who come to Linux / UNIX front another operating system.
* Indeed, it's very difficult to explain some of these concepts in a
few words. As you indicate, I could probably have done better in a few
places.
* More pictures and more explanation is a good idea, but I also wanted
to keep this chapter short
> My suggestion is that you should include more examples and
> demos,pictures,which chapter 2 is very lack of.
I will note this for the next revision! Thank you.
> and your explaination or discussion often introduce new knowledges.
> for example: function call linkage information,i don't know what it
> means.
Good point. I could have added some words on that.
> BTW,The same problem exists in page 76,chapter 4, where you
> describe O_DSYNC like this:
> "Perform file writes according to the requirements of synchronized I/O
> data integrity completion. See the discussion of kernel I/O buffering in
> Section 13.3."
> I can't understand what "synchronized I/O data integrity completion"
> means, even after having read the 3.374 base definition of SUSv3. Only
> when I read the corresponding section (Section 3.3) in "Advanced Unix
> Programming Enviroment v2" by Stevens & Rago, I have got the idea.I
> think u can learn the way they describe a concept. It's very easy to
> understand.
Okay -- I noted your point here, to keep in mind for the second edition.
> And back to chapter 2,the introduction of pseduterminals is very hard
> to understand. Without a specified scienario, and simply using
> abstract technology terms,I can't imagine where we can make use of
> this techonology . Still, within one paragraph(2nd paragraph,section
> 2.15), you use a lot of "driver"s among which their meaning may be
> differnt(e.g."Output written by the driver program undergoes the usual
> input processing performed by the terminal driver"),and this can
I agree. The multiple meanings of the term "driver" is confusing. I
will make a note...
I wish you had been able to read chapters of the book before
publication. I am sure you would have helped make it better! In the
meantime, please keep the comments coming; I will make use of them for
the 2e.
Best regards,
Michael
作者的回复,不用我翻译了吧?
合译实在是不得已而为之的事情。快餐时代、加之报酬低廉,单凭一己之力、全职倾力而为,就算能够译成,译者又如何糊口?而技术书籍的时效性又很强,要在进度和质量之间求得平衡,恐怕只有在保证合作者素质的前提下合作翻译一途。您说呢?
我是本书的合译者之一,在第四章的翻译过程中将相关内容和APUE作了比对,有些感触:经典的力量就在于将读者的理解成本降至最低,而不是用一堆恐怖的抽象名词让人望而却步。试举一例:synchronized I/O data integration completion,尽管出自SUSv3的定义,看了还是不懂。至于本书的写作手法,由于目前翻译工作还为大范围展开,不便妄加评说
很多事情你没有真正去干你又怎知好不好?没接此书翻译任务之前,我也和诸君有同样的想法,可答应下来接手之后,才发现作者的英文表达能力实在不敢恭维。诚然,做一件自己都不认同的事情是没有成就感,但是言而无信要更加糟糕。现在,唯二能做的就是抱怨,外加尽量把这书给译好。
下载本书的英文版应该不难,至于本人所言是具体还是抽象请诸君细读后再评判吧。
很好奇,既然这样的话你还翻译它干嘛呢. 做一件自己都不认同的事情岂不是很没有成就感.
个人觉得技术审校是否是英语沐浴对书的质量并没有决定性的影响,尤其是技术书籍.
如果你能举些本书不足的例子就好了.